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We are always looking for
more interesting stories, myths, or interesting facts on
Bach instruments. These are mainly statements of various
people, so I can't tell if they are all true ! They
are very interesting though, and provides an insight to
early days of Bach instruments.
If you have
any updated information, please contact us through the link
in the header. |
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Kennedy Bugle
discussion during Reagan Funeral (June 2004)
from
John Vincent Bach, Great
Nephew of Vincent Bach
"Attached are two articles on the Kennedy (Bach) Bugle
written for Newsday (NY Long Island paper) June of 2004. The
reporter, Knut Royce, was actually the
Washington Bureau National Security Correspondent at the time and suggested
to Newsday, NY that they do the article since Vincent lived
his life in New York, after arriving in US. They were short
reporters, so they gave it back to him and he did a pretty
good job with Roy Hemply's input." John Vincent
Bach
After
interacting with the Reagan Foundation, it was decided that
the Kennedy bugle
would not used, but rather another Bach Stradivarius Bugle.
"... does
deserve in his own right his own Reagan Bach Bugle"
Knut
Royce
The full size article is
posted in the library section of BachLoyalist.com.
Click on the images above, or "library"
in the header of each page.
Special thanks John Vincent
Bach for providing the articles, and this story.
As a side
note:
"Knut Royce has an upcoming book
coming out in late March 2007 (in collaboration with
Peter Eisner at the Washington Post), entitled "The Italian
Letter" about forged letters
concerning Niger selling uranium to Iraq, which convinced
Congress and America
that we should invade Iraq."
Bach Trumpets -
Quality (1940's)
from TPIN archives, Erik
Veldkamp's Original Bach Fan Page
"My experiences with Mr.
Vincent Bach in the late forties was less than pleasant. His
trumpet was full price. no discounts, $194.00 (1946). Every
other pro trumpet was much less. That was a lot of money
when my mustering out pay from the military service was
200.00 and average wages were 35.00. He took my trumpet to
the Bronx factory several times before the valve problem was
resolved.
His solution was to create leaky pistons. Mr Bach
was foremost a business man and secondly a trpt player. His
valve sections were not manufactured in his plant, they came
the Blessing co., by a man named Olmondinger who later
manufactured a trumpet under his name OLMOND. Every body
asks why the Bach trumpet does not have a 3rd slide water
key. The answer was and is still true today. He saved money.
Mr. Bach's integrity was less than sterling. The famous
story and I quote from a reliable source. He had a trumpet
on display with a water hose connected to the mouth piece
receiver and boasted that his pistons were so tight that
when the water was turned on not a drop was evident from any
of the slides. Sure why not! the slides were soldered shut.
>> BACH LOVERS BEWARE!
This testimony
highlights a point I have observed and made before. While
some of the early Bach's played great, there were more than
few shortcuts and incidents of shoddy workmanship. (The poor
quality of early Bach lacquer is a classic example--while
King was able to coat an instrument with lacquer that was
practically indestructible, Bach lacquer perished very
quickly). The value of a New York or Mt. Vernon Bach as a
collector's item should not influence those looking for a
great playing instrument. In my opinion the great resources
of the Selmer Company in the 1960's made Bach the standard
that it is today. When the operation was moved to the
Mid-West they took the best (the mandrels) and left behind
problems that hampered the small underfinanced operation in
Mt
Vernon.
A careful reading of
Andre Smith's Bach bio in the ITG Journal reveals
a less than rosy picture of the business. Under the Selmer
stewardship the operation was moved to a modern state of the
art factory that had been built by the Conn company. Selmer
employed laid off workers from Martin and Conn who brought
many more years of experience to the operation than ever
existed in the New York and Mt Vernon years. So before you
spend $1,500 or more on that vintage Bach as the magic
bullet to your playing, consider an early Elkhart model
instead--better and more consistent quality at half the
price!"
- Bob Pucci |
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Bach Mouthpieces -
Quality
from TPIN archives, Erik
Veldkamp's Original Bach Fan Page
"Why is there the
tradition of starting on a 7C? Because that's the size
that Vincent Bach himself played, and what he recommended as
a starting point. To this day, if you buy a new Bach trumpet
with standard case and mouthpiece, you get a 7C. (If you
already have a different preference, most dealers will allow
you to swap the 7C for the size you want--inquire at time of
purchase.) Proportions of the 7C? Given the medium-small rim
diameter, the cup is very deep. Why does the shape and
volume of the C cup seem different with almost every
different model rim? Because there is no standard C cup.
When Bach began to make mouthpieces, he was a section player
in the Boston Symphony.
Scale was very low in those days, so he started a one-man
mouthpiece
making business. Mouthpieces were turned out one at a time,
usually made according to the requests of a specific player.
(An old friend of mine has a set of Bach mouthpieces. from
Bach's earliest days--there are no numbers--they were
assigned names, i.e. the "Crackerjack" model, etc.
Eventually, when he had
established quite a few models, he needed to
assign permanent numbers which suggested their relative
sizes. The numbers he chose do seem to identify an orderly
progression in cup diameters, but the letters describing
cups are incredibly arbitrary. (Compare a 2.75C to a
3C--despite the similarity of diameter, their cup shape and
depth are vastly different, the 2.75C being one of the very
deepest C cups era in the entire line.) The RELATIVE
proportions of each variable in a given mouthpiece are
critical: cup diameter, cup shape, cup volume, throat size, backbore shape, length, and contour, and the amount of gap
between the end of the mpc and the start of the tapered lead
pipe. IF YOU CHANGE ONE OF THESE VARIABLES, EVEN MINUTELY,
YOU HAVE CHANGED ITS RELATIONSHIP TO EACH OF THE OTHER
VARIABLES, THEREBY HAVING A DRAMATIC EFFECT ON HOW THAT
PARTICULAR MOUTHPIECE PLAYS. This explains why several
"identical"
mouthpieces, produced in series by the same crafts persons,
with the same tools, will each seem to play differently when
being tested by an
experienced player.
Why do so many of the
Bach rims have that sharp inside edge? In his own writing
about his mpc. design, Bach said that this is a deliberate
feature. He intended that any improper forcing of the tone
would be
punished by pain (!). Many players also feel that this
well-defined inner
edge helps slurred notes to "slot in" more precisely than
than they do on
a more comfortable, rounded rim. ("Shaped like a toilet
seat" is how one
of my great teachers, William Vacchiano, memorably described
the latter
type rim.) Beware of the relationship between mouthpieces of
the Mt.Vernon era to mouthpieces manufactured by Bach before
and after that period. For some unknown reason, Mt.Vernon
mouthpieces got smaller. (Compare virtually any mouthpiece
of the Mt. Vernon years to recent ones bearing the same
model designation. Typically, they are dramatically
different. Tool wear?) Read the story behind the
creation of the 1X as published by Bach/Selmer. When
Selmer bought Bach, to their credit, they went back to
Vincent Bach's original specs."
- Louis Ranger |
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Getzen bought
Mt.Vernon parts when the
factory moved to Elkhart
from TPIN archives, Erik
Veldkamp's Original Bach Fan Page
"might've told this once
or more, but when Bach moved to Elkhart, IN the Getzen
company bought all remaining "parts" for the Allied
Corporation, which at the time was doing their own
manufacturing, overhaul repair work AND selling replacement
parts for everyone's stuff to stores (as they still do
today). I was informed (by and ex-Getzen employee) that it
wasn't unusual to see someone "building" a
Mt Vernon trumpet
for a buddy or for (backdoor) sales using these parts (on
their own time of course). I was told there were a "fair
amount" of parts leftover (especially bells), and even
matching serial numbers to valves and casings weren't a
challenge to a factory equipped for such things...
anyway, I've seen a couple of these horns over the years,
(that my friend assures me were built by his comrades) and
the workmanship is usually better than the stuff the Bach
guys were cranking out (put together without extra solder
glooping out...no tension on the braces, light buffing and
better lacquer jobs, etc...)"
-Russ Smidt |
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Some insight about
Mercedes and Mercury
models in the early days
from TPIN archives, Erik
Veldkamp's Original Bach Fan Page
"I own a Bach Mercury
trombone made in 1939, and it's a very fine
instrument, except that the slide and the bell are from two
different
Strad models.
An old ITG article on Vincent Bach provides some insight
into the
Mercury and Mercedes models which he produced at both NY and
Mt. Vernon.
First of all, he was a hoarder, and kept various bins of
misc. parts.
Secondly, he always seemed to be strapped for cash. Thirdly,
he didn't
produce a so-called "student horn" of inferior quality.
So, when customers demanded a cheaper "student horn", and he
needed the
cash, he'd go to his bins and pull out the various parts and
assemble
them from Strad stock, stamp Mercury or Mercedes on them and
sell them
cheaper. The different name was used in order not to
devaluate the Strad
name.
There were also times when the Strads simply got stamped
Mercury,
because the order for cheaper student or military horns was
too huge to
assemble anything from the bins.
Vincent's wife actually kept the books, and although Vincent
was in
charge of production, his wife would dictate what needed to
be done to
stay in the black, which included using different names on
the Strads in
order to market a cheaper horn to demanding customers
Much to his credit, Vincent wasn't about to cheapen the
quality of his
Strad horns or their reputation."
- Mike Terry |
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Early Elkhart Quality
Bach Trumpets
"Early
Elkhart means (to me) those made from the time of the move
from Mt. Vernon in 1965 to about 1970 or so, roughly serial
number 30000 to 50000.
Here's why: After Selmer bought Bach, as I understand it,
they purchased a fairly new state-of-the-art factory from
Conn (who was bailing out to Texas for cheap labor), hired
the experience Conn workers (as a group probably more
skilled and experienced than those working for Bach in Mt.
Vernon), and started making a few horns. The average
production for Bach in that period is about 3000 horns a
year, compared to 16,000 to 20,000 horns per year during the
last decade or so. The time and quality shows. The fit and
finish is superb, the horns do not come standard with a
first valve saddle (a trigger was an extra cost option) and
don't need it. The intonation is better and the notes center
better, in my opinion."
- Jim
Donaldson |
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The Brand New 40 year
old Bach
This story is one of those
mythical opportunities you "dream" of when looking for older
Bach instruments. I'm jealous, and even more surprised
it was on eBay and I missed it.
"I located this horn on E-Bay, cornet not a Trumpet
(but wait). An absolutely and completely original (not
refinished/refurbished) 1965 Strad Cornet 37 bell in
lacquer, SN #. 30,8XX. This is the first year I believe that
Elkhart was in operation since leaving the Mt Vernon
location. The sellers family has owned a music store since
1889 in Akron, Ohio. The shop has been inactive for 20 years
or so. They located this and a Strad trumpet several years
ago in a storage area in the shop and they are frozen in
time!
The 3rd valve slide stop is in the reverse position
from the current style.
Case original, serial numbers on each valve the keys
are in the small envelope and the flap is still stapled.
Case is plush blue velvet, with the old emblem inside the
case and outside, craftsman building a horn. No scratch, no
dents, no marred, the case is also absolutely pristine and
brand new. The original warranty card is in the case.
Absolutely perfect and brand new although 40 years old! Tedd
Waggoner from Bach and Roy Hempley who writes the "Bachology"
articles for "Trumpet Corner" were surprised to see one like
this.
I knew that it would be nice, but never dreamed that
the reality would be this incredible. The case hasn't even
be carried, the handle doesn't even have a curvature to it.
Absolutely perfect pristine inside/out, original warranty
card, case keys still in small envelope and still sealed.
Original valve oil and cleaning rod. No scratch's, dents or
anything! It hasn't ever been sold! The seller wrapped it
beautifully for me and this horn slots incredibly well and
has the sweetest sound. The 3rd valve slide stop is in the
opposite direction. I know that trumpets are usually the
focus of interest but I thought that you might appreciate
this horn. How many brand new all original 1965 Strads that
have never been sold or hardly even played are even in this
world today? The sellers also sold a 1965 Strad trumpet SN #
39,XXX also never sold previously/brand new however the 3rd
valve slide stop is in the traditional position. Both were
available for bid, and fortunately for me the focus was on
the trumpet and I was the only bidder for the cornet."
Tom D'Antoni from N.J.
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Interview w/ Trumpet
Tester; Ken Hocker
(early 2000?)
Trumpet tester at Conn
Selmer; Elkhart, IN
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How many
people work at the Bach plant?
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How did
you get a job testing trumpets at the plant?
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Back
in 77, I was playing in the South Bend Symphony, and
Craig, the assistant principal, was testing at the
time. He said they were looking for another tester,
and wanted to know if I was interested. Sounded good
to me, so I went in the next day, and have been
there ever since. If you can find the Bach brochure
from 1986, there are pictures of people who work
there. There I am, in the test room, playing a horn.
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How do you
actually test a horn?
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When
we test a horn, we set the venturi (the opening of
the leadpipe). Different leadpipes have different
openings. We swedge, or drill, to the correct size.
We set the mouthpiece receiver, we check the valve
port alignment, we check for solder inside the tubes,
and we check the alignment of the mounting, slide
action, valve action, and response and sound of the
model. A 43 bell is more open and very bright
compared to A 37. A 72 is darker etc.
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What
happens if a horn is bad?
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Have you
met anyone famous working at the plant?
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I have
met a lot of people, mostly Symphony guys, and
educators. I have never met Doc, but talked to him
once. He never knew who I was, I just took a message
for my boss, but I thought it was pretty cool!
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How big is
the plant and how can someone get a tour?
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Sources:
Stories from TPIN and
courtesy of
Erik
Veldkamp
Story from Tom D'Antoni
Story from John Vincent Bach on Reagan Bugle |
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